|
Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 1, 2014 18:11:52 GMT
Ahoy shipmates! I have been thinking of rewriting a piece of fanfiction that died on the brambles of bad writing when I was a younger and less thoughtful woman. In the interest of the historical accuracy, I have a couple of questions I would love you guys' second opinion on: 1) say you are a young lady (below 21), daughter of a captain. Your guardian entrusts you to a friend of you father's, himself a captain, for passage across the sea and to your brother. Is it proper for you to travel alone on his vessel since you are under his protection? 2) would a lady's testimony ever be required at a court martial concerning events on the ship of the line she was travelling on? Thanks awfully. Lydia
|
|
|
Post by Sharpiefan on Apr 1, 2014 18:57:31 GMT
1. She would have at least a maid with her if she is of a certain rank socially - you refer to a 'young lady' which means she's at least of the landed gentry. The maid would be as much for chaperonage reasons as to help with dressing, care of clothing etc etc. 2. Unlikely, I think. Naval courts martial were held for several reasons but they're nearly always to do with the actual professional part of being at sea. Courts martial would automatically be held on the surviving officers in the case of losing a ship - having it run aground in a storm, having it taken in battle or as the result of a mutiny. They would also be held on men who deserted their posts, or for embezzling stores or funds. Certain acts that came under the purview of the articles of war would also automatically lead to a court martial. If the court martial in question was on someone for 'conduct unbecoming to an officer and a gentleman' a lady passenger could be called as a witness if she heard or saw something to prove or disprove the charge, but that is about the only circumstance I can think of where a civilian would (or could) be a material witness, because most court martial offences were for breaking one or other of the Articles of War, and were thus held on professional men by professional men for doing something wrong professionally. (If you can get hold of a copy, this is a pretty good book - it contains the minutes of several different courts martial held between 1793 and 1815, on different men, for different reasons.) Note for those who don't know - and I may well be preaching to the converted! - the correct plural is 'courts martial' as the word 'martial' is an adjective, meaning military or of the military; 'court' is the noun. 'Court martials', while a common usage, is incorrect. SF
|
|
|
Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 1, 2014 19:48:28 GMT
Hello Sharpie! Thank you, that was very helpful. I did wonder about court martials, because I have always found it written that way.
So, say in an instance of mutiny, would the civilian on board be called upon to testify?
(Rather silly of me to start thinking about this when I am away from the British Library for the vac!)
|
|
|
Post by QueueMistressMags on Apr 1, 2014 20:19:46 GMT
I'll bow to Sharpie's knowledge as to the courtmartial, but she should definitely have a maid with her. The maid would sleep in her cabin (probably the captain's, or at least the first lieutenant's.)
|
|
|
Post by Sharpiefan on Apr 2, 2014 0:14:09 GMT
Black, bloody mutiny...
That's actually rather a tricky one because generally the events that led up to the crew deciding on taking the drastic action of mutiny - which was a capital crime according Articles 19 and 20 - was not sparked by one single event, but by a whole series of events. The infamous 1797 mutinies at Spithead and the Nore were a culmination of several things, and the sailors had attempted to have their grievances made known to the Admiralty prior to taking what was, in effect, industrial action (at Spithead; the Nore mutiny was somewhat worse.) The mutiny aboard HMS Hermione in the same year was sparked by Captain Pigot's cavalier treatment of the crew in flogging unnecessarily harshly. It came to a head when three young seamen fell from the mizzentop due to a threat of the last man down being flogged. He then callously ordered the bodies thrown over the side.
Anyhoo.
Your young lady could possibly be called as a witness to words or actions she herself has seen or heard (she'd be quartered in the Great Cabin and therefore would likely only hear things in the immediate vicinity thereof). If the mutineers threatened her in any way, or had any dealings at all with her in person, she could be called, though the vast weight of the testimonial would come from officers, petty officers, NCOs and other members of the crew.
I don't know if there are any testimonials from civilians in the book previously referred to, @hms Lydia; I will look through my copy and see if I can find you anything interesting. Is it specifically cases of mutiny that you're interested in?
SF
|
|
|
Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 2, 2014 0:18:42 GMT
Oh, that is very interesting! Yes, I should imagine so. Well, it being a fanfiction, it's the HMS Renown we are talking about, so I don't know, probably it would depend on whether she was around when the poor boy fell on deck. And whether she talked to our lieutenants. *plot bunnies*
|
|
|
Post by Sharpiefan on Apr 2, 2014 0:31:40 GMT
OK. HMS Renown, a two-decker ship-of-the-line of 74 guns... It is highly likely that she will have heard and witnessed at least some of the stuff on the quarterdeck at any point in the episode. There's also the Spanish take-over to consider, of course, so she will be able to testify to whatever treatment the Spanish gave her and her maid, and if she saw/heard anything of the take-back - or even if not, she'd still have testimony from when she and her maid were freed, or one of the lieutenants came to enquire about how she'd been treated. And there's the aftermath of the fighting to consider, if she is brought up on deck for any reason. Her testimony won't be as an expert witness, but as a witness to events, whatever way you look at it, though. I can't promise that I've got anything about a court martial for mutiny, but I can definitely send you a transcript of a court-martial so you can see the form and have an idea how it went. (Bearing in mind I've only got the official minutes - but even those can be quite interesting.) PS - if you're interested in the Hermione mutiny, I recommend the non-fiction work The Black Ship by Dudley Pope (author of the Ramage novels, encouraged to write by none other than our own CS Forester!) which is a good look at the mutiny, what led up to it, and the aftermath and consequences of it. SF
|
|
|
Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 2, 2014 1:01:17 GMT
Thanks so much sharpie! you have gone above and beyond helpful. All my historical training is in classical and medieval stuff, but I recognise a fellow buff.
|
|
|
Post by Sharpiefan on Apr 2, 2014 17:53:12 GMT
It helps that I'm in the early stages of co-authoring a book on the Royal Marines of the Age of Sail, so I'm collecting various books and documents and stuff. Including the court martial book heretofore referred to.
I meant to ask: Of the various courts martial I already have transcribed, I've got a couple on private marines, and one complete on an officer. OK, they're not on Navy personnel, but they'll give you an idea of the forms of the thing at least. Which would you prefer me to send you, one on the men, or the one on the officer?
SF
|
|
|
Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 2, 2014 18:46:35 GMT
One on the officer. That would be so amazing! Are you ok doing it by PM or would you prefer an email?
|
|
|
Post by Sharpiefan on Apr 2, 2014 19:43:38 GMT
PM me your email address. I'll send it over as a Word doc.
SF
|
|