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Post by HMS Lydia on Mar 31, 2014 13:22:34 GMT
Ahoy shipmates! Freshly out of a new session with The Even Chance ( The Duel for the American contingent) I thought I would open a thread for everyone to share their thoughts on favourite episodes of the series/things you liked best/if you feel like it, your thoughts on watching the series anew. I am currently on break and needing repose between writing sessions of my postgrad essays, so happy to be the first to open the way. The Even ChanceIt's been a while since I last watched the series (shameful, I know) but I find coming back to it fresh has added so much to it it's been like watching it for the first time again. While I remembered exactly what happened and why, what I didn't remember was just how well shot and visually elegant it is. I love myself some 'show don't tell' and the camera work and sets give us such a beautiful insight into what is going on. My favourite is the shot of Horatio waiting outside the Lamb: two looks down the street, Ioan huddling into his cloak and you know exactly how wretched it is out there, and how even a room with the considerable drawback of Simpson in it is preferable to staying outside. The unrelenting bleakness of Spithead was also such a fitting but not overstated background. I swear I am always cringing in TV series for a character pointing out the obvious since the writers want to make sure we missed nothing (duh) that the simplicity of the set-up for Horatio to announce he's thinking upon self-slaughter, to put it as Clayton would, is like a drink of water. The sky is livid, Horatio's face is black and blue, and the incongruity between that battered face and his impeccable uniform tell us all we need to know about how off kilter things are. I think it would be very commonplace of me to remark once more just how good Ioan is in it, but I might as well: the more I watch Hornblower the sadder I am because of the places his career has gone. The man has so much talent. With a character like Horatio, who threads so uneasily between what he thinks and what he does, the non-verbal is just as important as the verbal aspect if not more: and whether he is slipping on the snow to rush to Clayton's bedside, fixedly staring ahead because he knows Simpson is shooting daggers at him, or finally gloriously grinning because he knows he has him cornered at the card table, Ioan's Horatio comes alive on so many layers it's easy to see why it was an instant hit with the public. As a dyed in the wool Horatio fangirl, through my many visions of the series I have sometimes and unforgivably overlooked the happy wonder that is Kennedy: whatever Simpson's done to him, it's struck deep, so I admire his resilience in regaining so much of his buoyancy every time the horror goes out of his life. Paradoxically, I think there is a lot of myself I see in Kennedy: his eagerness for everything in his job, his continuous if sometimes slightly wrong quoting of Shakespeare, and finally that childishly absolute smile he can put on when something makes him really happy (his happy face as they row up to the Indefatigable for the first time is a joy). I think because in my life as an extrovert I have seen just how good friendships made with introverted people are, Archie and Horatio ring really true to me: they fill in each other's gaps in a way that enriches them both with things they miss. Much as Paul McGann's Bush is a thing of beauty in his own right, Gosh, is Archie missed when he's gone. And in closing time, some love for the secondary characters: chief of all Captain Keene. The man is a joy. His sarcasm may be the meanest thing this side of Sherlock, but I love him the more for it. His career may have gone nowhere and his lungs may be packing in by the day, but the man hangs on to both a fierce spirit and a well-hidden but strong sense of justice. Hat off. Second up is Eccleston. Never was a man more oblivious or more devilish (could he pair up Horatio with someone other than Simpson for once? Pretty please?) but I warm up to him as he goes towards his death, which is both premature and just heartbreaking when he asks for his colleague with his dying breath. While a more helpful lieutenant might have been the saving of Horatio's and Archie's sanity, Eccleston leaves big shoes to fill. And on a final and lighter not: anyone else has a liking for the lieutenant from the Goliath? I love how debonair and polite the actor plays him, and his polished awkwardness when he sees he's gotten caught in a feud between two middies who are totally unknown to him. He tries so hard to smooth things over, while Horatio, bless him, is driving them forward the way only he can. Lydia P.S. SILEEEEEEENCE. Hello, glorious, glorious Captain Pellew.
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Post by Sharpiefan on Mar 31, 2014 16:15:00 GMT
Now I need to watch it again. Oh what a hardship... not! SF
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Post by QueueMistressMags on Mar 31, 2014 19:51:06 GMT
Ahoy shipmates! P.S. SILEEEEEEENCE. Hello, glorious, glorious Captain Pellew. DAMN YOUR IMPUDENCE, SIR!
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HMSCody
Lieutenant
Happy to be of service, as ever.
Posts: 427
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Post by HMSCody on Mar 31, 2014 20:14:22 GMT
Yes!! A group re-watch. Will do, when I have a chance. I haven't watched The Films in ages.
HMSCody
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Post by Nosey's sister on Apr 1, 2014 15:07:01 GMT
A group re-watch? Call me in. What a great idea. And Lydia, some of the aspects you mentioned had gone utterly unnoticed by me. It will be fun to re-discover everything.
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Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 3, 2014 12:11:24 GMT
The Examination for Lieutenant (aka The Fire Ships)
Episode 2 is both one of my most and least favourite episodes in the whole series. The reason why is the whole concept underlying it, which is at once really good and sometimes badly mishandled. Being the episode in which Mr H goes off on his own without Captain Pellew to watch over him and not a single friend to keep him company, it's the one episode in the whole series where we see Hornblower left entirely to his own devices, and how he fares when it comes to that. And that's a great and worthy subject. On the other hand, because it's a psychological and not plot-driven episode, sometimes the delicate work becomes ham-fisted and you just cringe.
But before we get down to the nitty-gritty of the episode, allow me a gushy moment: Horatio. With a straw hat. And an undone uniform. And salty, beach-waved curls fetchingly dishevelled over his deliciously tan, caramel-coloured skin. Fans herself. Rrrrright. Ahead we go.
So the episode starts with Horatio being a bit unlikeable, which is good because otherwise Horry's impossible standards of awesome might make him a bit Mary Sueish. Turns out, Hornblower likes daring better than saving his own men, which makes me think he isn't much ready for command yet. He has at least the good grace to blush about it, which looks terribly good on Ioan and allows Pellew a very dignified and hurt moment which, much more than other moments in the series, lets us sea just how fond he is of Horatio. And then we meet the wonder that is Bracegirdle. I cannot emphasize enough what an amazing and relatable character Bracegirdle is. The man is splendid, and can tell you you're acting like a complete idiot while also letting you know you can do better, son. Hooray for Bracegirdle.
The groundwork for Horatio's big growth is laid down impeccably: with characteristic pluck he faces quarantine dignifiedly, has his books delivered in a cute moment of 'Should I live to take it, I'mma ace that exam', and when Styles calls him captain for the first time, he allows himself a secret little smile that tells us more than a thousand words how bleeding good Horatio is determined to be. And that's lovely. And then there is Mr Tapling. If there is a moment in the episode when Horatio shows what he's made of, it's with Tapling. He corrals a panicky, reluctant civilian into doing the navy's work, and they grow to mutually respecting each other during it. But then there is the problem
The Bunting plot.
Now, one thing about the Bunting plot is very subtly and efficiently done: the value dissonance between our time and theirs. The audience is given plenty of reasons to sympathise with Bunting: he was pressed, he was unhappy, his only friend died and he cared enough about him to spend a week's pay in mourning for him, and he was just HUNGRY. But of course, what is sympathetic for us must be unforgivable for them. That is the good of the Bunting plot, and it gets all my respect. But then there is the fact that, Bunting having committed suicide by Horry, every other character proceeds to tell Hornblower just how much it isn't his fault. And quite frankly: it is his fault. He was captain, and captains take the burden and suck it up. Which is why, while Matthews stating the man was beyond saving and Pellew restating for Hornblower how difficult being a captain is are ok, the whole little Horatio/Tapling interlude is a bit too much. They overstate the morale of the story and unnecessarily explicit something that would be much better left unsaid.
Because, and this is getting repetitive so sorry, Ioan Gruffudd is so good at non-verbal acting. There is that secret little smile, the dignified salute he gives Pellew when the Caroline comes back, and the intense expression with which he looks at his books without briskly opening them which is a crystal clear 'I WANT TO STUDY. I DARE YOU TO KEEP ME FROM STUDYING'. Ioan can carry a script that heavily hinges on his showing us what he feels, not telling us, and his horrified expression when Bunting offs himself on his pistol speaks volumes about exactly what he feels. Overstating it then simply ruins the good work done, especially since it is capped with the most cringeworthy line of the whole series: 'I was thinking about how far we come as sailors, and how far we have still to sail as men' (or roundabout). So the episode gets massive points for the effort and partially the execution, but let me down big time on the unsubtlety.
Nonetheless: tan Horatio. TAN HORATIO, ladies.
Random moments of awesome:
Finch's death remains as heartbreaking today as it was fifteen years ago. The poor man, I want to spoonfeed him orange juice.
Pellew's dainty gesture when he shakes the worms from his biscuit is so funny. Watch Robert Lindsay's face when he does it and tells me if it's not hilarious.
I am interested by the fact that unflappable Bracegirdle only ever loses it when faced with the plague. Tells us interesting things about what he fears more than cannons.
If ever I am on a quarantined ship, I want Horatio to command it, so I can have filet while he prances about looking fetching.
Barechested Horatio looking for a clean shirt. Excuse me.
Lydia
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Post by QueueMistressMags on Apr 3, 2014 14:41:09 GMT
Yes, brilliantly stated. This episode has a high percentage of cringeworthy moments--the "how far we still have to sail as men" is the most facepalmy in the series, and I have been known to turn off the DVD before getting to it, and that's saying something with Mariette and Betsy Wetsy still to come. ;-)
Moments of Awesome:
BUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNTINNNNNNNNNNNNNG
"Look at the size of that thing!"
"They asked me to define a rhumb line!" And a character nickname is born...though I'm going to have a hard time not thinking of Rhumb Line Guy as Anderson now.
First appearance of Black Charlie Hammond. *hisssssssssss*
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Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 3, 2014 15:29:25 GMT
So true, though given all that happens to him I do feel kinda sorry. EVENTUALLY. Do we ever find out why he is nicknamed Black Charlie? Kinda already sounds villainous.
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Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 6, 2014 21:48:58 GMT
The Duchess and the Devil
You guys, I love this episode. I also have a strong suspicion this was the first episode I glimpsed of Hornblower, although I can't be sure since it was ten years ago, that day I was running a fever, and I caught up with the rest soon anyway through re-runs. Whatever the reason, I love this episode, which means I will have to try extra-hard to be very objective about it. First of all, I think seeing how the female presence in the series from this moment on will go steeply and inarrestably downhill, we can all relish the wonder that is Kitty Cobham as played by Cherie Lunghi. She's smart, she's strong, she's sexy, and she has as much chemistry with Mr Aitch as oxygen and hydrogen when you want water. In other words: wow. It is endlessly puzzling to me that after finding a successful formula for the kind of female character that works with Hornblower, aka someone confident enough in herself to live with his emotional distance, just pushy enough to get him to break his shell, and clever enough to tickle his intellect, the writers promptly decided to forget about her and inflict upon us every other female character in the series. Makes me happy they never got their mitts on Lady Barbara, as I shiver to think what that would have looked like. -.- Anyway, the episode opens with a glorious scene of Horatio being a sneaky baby and getting away with it. I particularly love the first shot we get of our heroes: we see Hunter looking grumpy, Styles looking puzzled on the edge of vacant, and then Horatio with a ferociously focused look in his deep, dark eyes, about to show how snarkiness and a brains can win a war while limiting casualties. Seeing how last episode showed him admiring Dreadnought Foster's own bloody brand of wasteful bravery, this is as subtle a piece of character development as any. There is a battle, Styles throwing a shipboy overboard (I hope to God the poor mite could swim) and then Pellew gloriously making fun of Hornblower's incapability for catching on to humour. Also, we get to relish the thought of Hornblower being fitted for a new uniform. It's always appreciated. Fun is indeed one of the reasons why I really love this episode: beside Pellew and Bracegirdle leading Horry around the block, we get Hunter teaching him how to cut rock ape (quick chopping motions, ladies!) and the randiest banter the show will get. Which leads us to a pleasant surprise: Pellew is a bit of a blushing bride, but Horatio loves himself a dirty joke. Case in point: the dinner party. Pellew prudishly remarks Florentine statuary is naked, then proceeds to look like a fish out of water when the Duchess heavily hints to catching a certain part of the duke's anatomy. Hornblower, meanwhile, is grinning naughtily, exactly what he'll do when Styles will remind him he hasn't seen a woman in six months. You're full of surprises, Horatio, and we love you for it. (Also worth mentioning is Pellew's awkward 'Ger her out of those...ehr...' when Kitty boards the Indy while soaking wet). And the dinner party is but the beginning of the glorious thing that is Kitty Cobham shamelessly, continuously and beautifully hitting on HH. You guys, seeing a lady tell Horatio just how charming he is and getting away with it, while also getting him to do the things she wants, is a beautiful thing for the fangirl. Pushing herself as far as stroking the Sharp Cheekbones (TM) to remind him he's got no razor, Kitty gives Horatio a crash course in conversashun and what you do with it when ladies are around. Also, in not judging from class prejudice, as the actress you might not trust because of her profession might be the proud patriot that carries your despatches in her undies and sleeps with a rakish Frenchman to save your skins. It's a heck of a lesson to learn, and it comes with another lesson in romance writing: just because the leading man and woman never, to put it as Styles would, boarded each other, it does not mean we believe any the less in their chemistry. Horry's cute, barely concealed jealousy when Kitty sleeps with de Vergesse, her delighted and unashamed flirting with him, and the way they snuggled up in the rowboat all make for a much better tale of attraction than any kiss exchanged with Marie (I am having pre-emptive nightmares). This is also the episode Archibald 'Crumpet' Kennedy comes back to the screen, sporting gloriously dishevelled locks and yet another heartbreaking story. I don't think people give Kennedy enough credit: when the expedition to Quiberon comes around he's still recovering from long imprisonment, FIVE failed attempts at escaping and subsequent punishments, and one long-lasting trauma. Kennedy screaming 'Simpson!' when he wakes up is both a brilliant continuity nod back to episode 1 and a reminder of how deep his scars go. Also in this episode there is Archie summing up what whoever sidekicks for Horatio must live with: the man's standards are impossible to live up to. While Horatio may and does screw up occasionally, he always eventually comes through with annoyingly persistent brilliance. Let it be a tribute to the two's friendship that Archie progresses from the painfully bitter 'But you're not in my place, and you never would be' to being by Horatio's side no matter what. Behind every great man there is a best friend with enough equanimity not to let said greatness get on his nerves. And then there is Hunter. While he doubtlessly is an improvement on Bunting in the department of 'side character who cannot stand Horatio', Hunter fulfills the painfully predictable slog from 'needlessly criticising our hero' to 'finally appreciating our hero' to 'dying a redemptive death'. While he gets points for good motivations in adherence to the rulebook, being right about not changing course en route to England, and having some moving moments as he reflects on his life, he loses out massively by being a sailor who does not realise how vital lemons, however grudgingly accepted, may be in avoiding scurvy on prison diet. Tightly and wittily written, featuring nice dialogue, lovely banter and some truly outstanding shots of pretty, pretty sea, The Duchess and the Devil is a love of mine which I hope I did not review too nicely. Random moments of awesome: Kitty Cobham is a civilian on a two gunner surrounded by the enemy when a 74 gun man-of-war opens fire on them. And she. Barely. Flinches.French naval uniforms are cute, and Horatio looks dandy in them. 'Do you have a sweetheart back in England, Archie?' KENNEDY. DO NOT FAINT. YOU ANSWER HIM FIRST. That rat in the oubliette may drive Horry mental (and interrupt his luscious bathing in the rain) but it looks so cute at it fluffs itself out. Check out the snarky way the Spanish guard bows K and H back into their cell at the end of the episode. Styles and Matthews giving Oldroyd a rough time because he took part in the escape attempt. Bilingual bonus: from what I can discern, all the Spanish in the episode makes sense, and you can hear the Spanish saying things the screenwriters would probably not get away with had they said them in English (let us just say the soldiers and people call into questions the sailors' sexual habits, their mothers' morality and their relationships to goats). Also, evil, evil Don Masseredo entices HH with the tale of the windmills, and then gives him part II of Don Quixote, aka the part that doesn't have the windmills in it. Final thing: I may be overthinking this. But: mind the ending, as the rowboat returns to the coast and the Indy salutes them. Horry smirks as gloriously as only he can, while Kennedy winces painfully at every gunshot. Preludes of panicking under fire? Lydia
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Post by shipoftheline on Apr 6, 2014 23:32:12 GMT
I may not be contributing to the thread much, but I am enjoying your episode recaps immensely Lydia.
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Post by HMS Lydia on Apr 7, 2014 1:13:09 GMT
I may not be contributing to the thread much, but I am enjoying your episode recaps immensely Lydia. I'm blushing so hard right now. Thanks! Glad to be of service. Lydia
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Post by Sharpiefan on Apr 7, 2014 15:37:20 GMT
I have got to watch this series over again. (About the only thing I liked in the very last episode was that they have some good shots of the Royal Marines.)
Yes, there are some cringe-worthy moments, but overall it's a darn good series with some fine acting. Not to mention the uneeeforms.... *fans self*
SF
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Post by HMS Lydia on May 4, 2014 0:26:22 GMT
Ladies? Excuse the long absence. Suffice to say that drains burst, essays got written, and I was one busy sailor. Until now. Nor hell nor high water shall keep me from offering you The big old messThe Wrong EpisodeNo romance in FranceThe Frogs and the Lobsters aka The Wrong WarI am going to open this review of the most controversial Hornblower episode with a gambit: in my heart of hearts I think this could have been a good, interesting, disquieting episode. I think it had all the potential for one, and that in bits, it still manages to be one. But it lets us down so hard in so many places. The strongest part of the Wrong War is in my opinion the strong feeling of discomfort and displacement that pervades it. It's an episode about nautical heroes on land, and that works out about as well as one might imagine. Never was the expression 'fish out of water' better employed. I may be overthinking this, but this episode was prime material for a serious confrontation between the Army and the Navy, and the way the two branches conceive war. I think that it's brilliant that Major Edrington is altogether less fussed, shocked or fazed by the many terrible things going on around them. The historian in me reasons that sailors rarely if ever come in contact with civilians, or forage off them, or actually ever spend extensive amount of times in a foreign land. Sure, they sail in foreign watersz, but they still have their ship as their travelling home. I think that, if the episode had the courage to embrace this dissonance and run with it, it would be a great one. But it's not. Much of the discomfort in The Wrong War comes not from ably conjured atmosphere but from plain old writers' screw-up. We start with the ambush scene. In an uncharacteristically unpeopled and remarkably clean London, a messenger fails to see the ambush that is clearly coming for him a mile away, does very little to avoid it (in the same manner in which later the inhabitants of Muzillac shall go to the guillotine with remarkable composure and lack of protest) and dramatically dies at Pellew's feet. Intercut with this we have Horry getting fitted for a new uniform and being hard-up. I fail to see the need for the editing, since it cuts down the already watered tension, but so is life. Pellew gives us many ominous warnings as to the fact that he Does Not Feel good about this, which would be much appreciated if every other character would not repeat them from now on to the end of the episode. Up next is much needed comic relief in the form of the snarkfest provided by Major (pardon, my lord) Edrington. Guys, Sam West is not my type, but I can totally see why so many of you love Edrington. He is a breath of fresh air in the otherwise sparkless proceedings. He lords it out so gloriously he even manages to shut up Archie, who has by now regained his own brand of uppity, adorable sarcasm, and will still be there to provide it when our Archie subsides into the doldrums of PTSD (more on this later). The transport of the troops is also great fun, as it gives Styles the chance to confirm himself Our Favourite Grumpy Sailor ( 'A frog's a frog and the only good frog is a dead frog, sir!).
When we finally approach land, we get the first of many awkward and borderline out of character moments for Pellew. Pellew likes Hornblower. Pellew thinks of Hornblower as a son. We do not need to be told every moment, to see Pellew, a seasoned captain who has probably lost more than his fair share of friends and colleagues, moon over this one lieutenant as he leaves the ship. Moreover, we do not need the solemnity of the moment heavily underlined by having Pellew framed by the gloriously flying flag. Sigh.
Anyway, what follows is the best establishment of atmosphere in the whole episode: Kennedy commands a dung cart (the world's not gonna look up anytime soon, Archie), Horatio fails hard to grasp the mechanics of a horse ( I see why you chose the Navy, remarks Edrington, and I send him kisses from the sofa) and the Marquis de Moncoutant shows exactly how crazy you have to be to carry your own personal guillotine. I love the palpable, almost unbearable awkwardness, embarrassment and then incomprehension as Edrington and Hornblower see the Marquis being rejected by his hometown, seeing his house destroyed, and then cold-bloodedly shooting the maire. They share a wide-eyed look that is one of the best 'oh c**p' moments ever, and I almost fail to notice how the moment is spoilt by the unnecessary symbolism of the falling Tricolour draped on the dead maire (this episode has a thing with flags). And this is the moment which we have all feared. The moments which we have all looked forward to. The moment when Marie comes in. I don't wanna hate on anyone. IMDB tells me Estelle Skornik has had a long and distinguished career in France, so I am happy to think her lack of expression when delivering has a lot to do with acting in a language other than her own. I am also not going to blame her for lack of chemistry with Ioan, as chemistry is not a rational thing and if these two pretty people were just not clicking, not much anyone can do. But I do resent the way Marie is written: the fact that she is shoe-horned in as unnecessary romantic interest who ups the stakes and sends everyone else completely out of character. I resent the fact that she is in the episode for a grand total of 8 minutes, and during those 8 minutes she fails to demonstrate a single moment of symathetic or even justifiable character. It is never explained why she speaks English. It is never explained why the daughter of maids was educated enough to run the school. She miserably fails to shut up the little kid who sang the Marseillese. She keeps the school open during the riot. She sleeps illuminated by a ray of random light, just so we understand how saintly she is, and thden cheerfully betrays the Republic who has given her respect and social standing to the first pretty lieutenant who comes along. I really don't like how Edrington mysteriously goes from asking Horatio whether he got lucky the night before (check out his smirk when he asks) to manfully consoling him for the loss of the random girl. I don't like how Horatio completely breaks character to cry over her. I don't like how Pellew just accepts that commissioned officer is bawling in his cabin. I don't like how Archie does not give him a reality check. I don't like, indeed, how Archie is totally left out of this episode to make way for Mariette. I regret that Archie was not in this episode. I don't like how we see him look down from the bridge and break down under fire and we just know that he is understandbly worried and scarred at the thought of being captured again, that he is probably remembering his long imprisonments and really does not want to go there again. I am heartbroken that Edrington slams him (which is understandable from his point of view, as Archie is then not doing his duty in an efficient manner) but Horatio doesn't say anything. I am sorry we don't get more character development, because this is where character development would absolutely make him. And we would have had time for it too, hadn't it been for Mariette. Finally, Pellew. I am irked by how unashamedly the episode makes Pellew all about Hornblower, and how his only priority is to save him as opposed to the whole company that got left stranded in Muzillac. Nonetheless, the captain pulling with all his strength to rescue his protegé is still a better love story than Horatio and Mariette, so I will take it and shut up about it. And finally, that glorious final shot of Archie and Horatio on the yardarm is so beautiful I want to forgive the episode for not being what it could have been Random moments of awesome: In an excess of realism, the production team did not give sunblock to the cast. Our heroes get realistically and endearingly sunburnt as the episode progresses, and it's adorable. The Marquis gets guillotined face up for a chilling moment of terrifying television. Matthews may be fond of Hornblower, but he will do his duty and light the fuse and blow the bridge to cut him off if the service needs it. Archie, on the other hand, will not, and it's just as awesome. Chickens are the secret and unsung heroes of the episode. From the chicken on the deck of the Indy to the chickens unconcernedly strolling around Muzillac, T The Frogs and the Lobsters has some fine chicken acting. Lydia P.S. I hope I wasn't too harsh.
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