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Post by WinterMoon on May 9, 2014 19:29:29 GMT
My (rather overweight) boss has been feeling the urge to get in shape, and he claims that he's had nothing but water for 20 days now. (Day 20 is either today or tomorrow.) This is apparently very good for you, because digestion and metabolism is hard work which the body would love to do less of, if you have a fat-reserve it can munch on instead. And in Western society, we all do. He's actually shrunk noticably. I'm not going to lie, initially I thought he was being completely crazy. His parents are a bit worried, so they came to the office today to see if he looked like death yet. He doesn't actually, and seemed to be in okay shape today. He's been putting the pressure on me to try it for myself, and I have tentatively agreed to be Food-Free for 5 days. According to BossMan, I will feel great and be in a state of near-bliss on the fourth day, because all the toxins will have been flushed out. My cells will have figured out where to get the fuel they need, so I won't feel hungry again for a long time. I'm doing it half so he can't say that I didn't even try, and half to see if I'll really reach that state of happiness and clarity that he claims to have gotten to himself. It's been years since the last time I was really high on life, and I would love to be able to feel like that again. If I start feeling sick along the way, I'll stop immediately.
I discussed the plan with my two older cousins as we were out doing our weekend shopping. Long story short, they think my boss is telling everyone fibs, and that he's actually eating something, just healthier and less than usual. To put it bluntly, they think he's lost his marbles. A few weeks ago he also told me it's healthy to lay off fluids for a couple of days, in order to avoid them accumulating. This flies in the face of everything I've ever heard before, because pretty much every fitness instructor on TV says you need to drink. In light of this, the cousins think I shouldn't listen too much to BossMan's fitness tips. Their exact words were "Are you really that gullible, because usually you aren't." And no, usually I'm a very sceptical person. But it's abundantly clear that BossMan is doing something that's causing him to lose a lot of weight, and he's still alive and on his feet after allegedly not having eaten for three weeks. He's not really the type of person who would go around lying to people he knows, his parents among others, in order to get attention.
Soooo, good shipmates... What do you think? Is it possible he's actually been living on water all the time? Does it sound healthy to you? Apparently, you can be okay for about 40 days before you really need to eat again. Do you know something I don't? Please tell me.
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Post by Dolphin on May 9, 2014 20:59:46 GMT
I think we have some medically trained shipmates who can actually give a qualified answer to this, but I'd say it sounds rather dangerous to me. I think it is probably possible to survive all that time on water - survivors of shipwrecks and other disasters come to my mind - but healthy??? For one thing, his metabolism must have changed to adapt to this starvation. That screams Yo-Yo-effect, doesn't it? And what about electrolytes? Wouldn't they be upset after all that time?
Do you know if he started it from one day to the other or with a couple of days preparation during which he reduced his caloric intake?
Please be careful about your 5-day-try. There must be safer and nicer ways to lose weight!
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Post by WinterMoon on May 9, 2014 21:10:32 GMT
Well, I think he normally dives head first into stuff, so he probably just stopped eating one day. I will be careful. This is not as much about losing weight, as getting rid of the "poison", and seeing if it actually has a positive effect on my brain. Cells have actually been proven to be more efficient at repairing themselves during a fast, according to this TV program that was shown on Norwegian TV. People have gotten rid of all sorts of ailments, from rashes to depression, by laying off the nosh for a while. The boss had a hernia that disappeared, for example. o.O
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Post by Bucky on May 10, 2014 12:03:57 GMT
Drinking water is certainly healthy in order to flush your system. But only drinking water and not eating, especially for that long as period, is risky IMO. I have read many a diet/lose weight books, blogs and reviews to know that the experts always say that eating nothing will only make your body more hungry and then it will start eating away at your muscles, not your fat. Even shake diets, while all liquid, contain nutrients that you need to survive.
I think for a few days it would be ok, but not prolonged periods of time.
If you are going to try it, make sure you take some vitamins to ensure that your body gets at least that.
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Post by WinterMoon on May 10, 2014 13:24:52 GMT
But vitamins would have to be digested and absorbed, not giving the body the break from work that it's supposed to get. According to the enlightened, everything you need, including vitamins, has enough of it stored in the fat-deposits to last you at least twelve days. And apparently you only lose a little bit of muscle on the second day, which is the hardest one. After that it's the fat that's being tapped into, since you've created yourself the kind of "famine" it's supposed to be used for. This is what highly educated German doctors say. I'm only on my first day of fasting yet, so I don't really know how I'll feel come Thursday. Boss thinks I'll feel so great that I'll want to do another few days. I can't see doing the full ten days he claims I can safely do. I'll start eating some fruit and vegetables on Thursday. If I need to, I can always do another five day fast later on, after having had a week or two where I've eaten healthy foods.
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Post by Dolphin on May 11, 2014 7:44:59 GMT
Well, the hightly educated German doctors (Do you mean Buchinger? He lived in the 19th century!) also recommend getting a doctor's OK before you start fasting, warn against fasting longer than 5 days without supervision, warn against the Yo-Yo-effect that will set in and stress that it is important to start both fasting and eating again slowly... There are also a lot of milder forms that water fasting - with herbal teas or fruit juices Anyway, I'd love to read about your experience and to hear how it is going and how long your boss is keeping it going
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Post by WinterMoon on May 11, 2014 12:37:05 GMT
Thanks, Dolphin! I'll keep you posted. It's been about 40 hours now, and I don't really feel hungry, just nervous and jittery. I've had short periods of headaches, but not as bad as I expected. Tomorrow's supposed to be a lot easier. I'm planning on going to work since Monday is usually one of the days the BossMan spends most time in the office. I've got flexi-time, so I can go home if things get too bad.
And no, the German doctors who recommended fasting definitely lived during a time when there was colour TV. Boss showed me the clip on Youtube, and it appeared to be a recent production.
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Post by WinterMoon on May 13, 2014 20:37:35 GMT
Oookay... It's been 96 hours. I'm not feeling any sense of incredible happiness, only a slight headache. The only little smidge of optimism I'm having right now comes from the fact that tomorrow night I can eat an apple! But yay, I did it? Or I will have tomorrow. Everyone thinks the boss is lying, and I should lie back to him. But meh, it's only one more day, and at least I know I was honest. Update: Boss just messaged me, and let me know that the test he took at the doctor's today shows he's healthier than he's been for 20 years. I have no right to believe he's lying, because I wasn't there. He also said it was 21 days today, not on Saturday as I previously thought. Like I expected, he told me that the reason I don't feel the "paradise" I was promised, is that I haven't gone long enough. Most people need 8-10 days to get there. I'm on the verge of tears, because I'm scared that dropping off the fast after only five days is going to be a very bad decision, despite what everyone else tells me. Horatians, I'm scared.
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Post by QueueMistressMags on May 13, 2014 21:32:19 GMT
I honestly don't think this is a good idea. I'm not an expert or anything but extremes are never good for the body.
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Post by Ensign Sandra on May 13, 2014 23:04:00 GMT
TL;DNR version: This is genuine idiocy. Don't do it. ------------ Extended version: Going 20 days without food when it is available is f***ing stupid, is what it is. You don't need to starve yourself to detox. Your liver and kidneys do that for you all day, every day. You don't feel great because the toxins have left your body. You feel light-headed because you are metabolizing ketones to derive the glucose without which your brain ceases to function. Your body will also begin breaking down muscle tissue to take the energy from the proteins. Do this long enough, and 20 days is more than long enough, and you'll cause serious damage to your vital organs. You probably won't die from it, but it is in no way healthful. Your body does function on a circadian cycle and having a relatively long period of fasting (16 hours) and restricting food intake to 8 hours--and those 8 hours being during the appropriate part of the circadian clock--does improve many measures of health, including fasting glucose levels, insulin sensitivity, belly fat, etc. But that is a whole other thing than not eating at all. DO NOT go for several days without any fluid intake. Every cellular process depends upon it and you lose quite a bit of water through respiration. Being dehydrated will totally screw up your blood sodium, potassium, and calcium, which will screw up involuntary muscle contraction. Meaning, your heartbeat. It will also totally wreck your kidneys because they're still trying to filter the blood without any medium for disposing of waste products, which are still produced at the cellular level whether you are eating or not. People die from this. As for, "A doctor said it on the internet, so it must be true"; it's utter bullshit. I spend my professional life examining claims and evidence and figuring out whether the evidence given to support a claim is valid. Nutrition has more quack information on the web than any other topic I know. Granted, there is a lot that the established research community doesn't know about nutrition because it is extraordinarily complicated at the cellular level, but the scientific community does tend to be self-correcting, even if it takes a long time to do so. For instance, standard dietary advice regarding low-fat eating styles and the danger of saturated fats does not actually have a lot of solid data to back it up. PM me if you want references on that. One particular study rarely "proves" or "disproves" anything. You have to look at the information in the context of the knowledge on the topic. Systematic reviews and meta-analyses are the best tool we have for that. I can also direct you to some publicly-available (world-wide) databases and search techniques. There's a great article in Clinical Chemistry and Laboratory Medicine (yes, I know) about what the author calls Nobelitis; a general assumption that somebody who has won that esteemed accolade must therefore be an expert on all areas of science. I can't post it here because of copyright considerations, but I can tell you where to look for it. This happens to a lot of people who haven't won the Nobel either. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the United States, the MD curriculum includes no study of nutrition at all. Not that docs can't learn as they go along, but it is not their major area of expertise. People are studying nutrition and public health epidemiology and it turns out what your mama always told you is true: eat your vegetables. OOOOOkay, there's my rant on that. And I haven't even started on anecdotal evidence yet (correlation/causation, randomization, extrapolation, etc). If anybody wants to have a discussion about evaluating what you read, I'd love to bore you to tears about it. Meanwhile, Understanding Risk, from the National Institute on Aging, is a good primer for interpreting research results, especially in the popular press.
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Post by WinterMoon on May 14, 2014 0:13:10 GMT
Thanks, Sandra. I have told him, in no uncertain terms, that I WILL start eating again tomorrow. He claims that his tests show that everything is hunky-dory with his vital organs, and that his doctor has green-lighted him for going another week, making it 28 days in total. So this one particular doctor at least was not on the net, he's in a small, coastal town in Norway.
It wasn't on the Internet BossMan actually found this information, it was a scientific programme on TV, on good old state-run NRK. He's been pestering me to watch it, because I will apparently change my mind when I watch it for myself. But I feel a little bit pissed off right now, because I don't think a boss should have this much say over my home-life even if, as he says, he just "borrows" me, and is not really my boss, and we're friends and yadda yadda.
I'm looking for another job, just by the way.
EDIT: The doctor's a she.
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Post by Ensign Sandra on May 14, 2014 0:35:32 GMT
Thanks, Sandra. I have told him, in no uncertain terms, that I WILL start eating again tomorrow. He claims that his tests show that everything is hunky-dory with his vital organs, and that his doctor has green-lighted him for going another week, making it 28 days in total. So this one particular doctor at least was not on the net, he's in a small, coastal town in Norway. It wasn't on the Internet BossMan actually found this information, it was a scientific programme on TV, on good old state-run NRK. He's been pestering me to watch it, because I will apparently change my mind when I watch it for myself. But I feel a little bit pissed off right now, because I don't think a boss should have this much say over my home-life even if, as he says, he just "borrows" me, and is not really my boss, and we're friends and yadda yadda. I'm looking for another job, just by the way. People who have found something that they believe makes a radical difference in their life do tend to like to proselytize about it. But go ahead and tell him to butt out of your personal life. He really doesn't have any right to be pestering you about this. Talk to Personnel or his boss if he doesn't back off. I don't speak Norwegian, but I'd love to have the details about that television program. I can't really assess its validity without having seen it. As for his interpretation of its message, who knows? As for his personal doctor, again, there's a whole range of beliefs in the medical profession. I fired a doctor who didn't take my experiences seriously but others I know really like him. It tends to be a male/female split of opinion in that regard. There's a lot more to energy homeostasis and weight maintenance than "calories in/calories out" and a lot more to good health than just your body weight. Increase your fruit and veg intake and ease off on the sugars and you will be healthier, regardless of the number on the scale.
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Post by Dolphin on May 14, 2014 5:57:51 GMT
Thanks, Sandra. I have told him, in no uncertain terms, that I WILL start eating again tomorrow. He claims that his tests show that everything is hunky-dory with his vital organs, and that his doctor has green-lighted him for going another week, making it 28 days in total. So this one particular doctor at least was not on the net, he's in a small, coastal town in Norway. It wasn't on the Internet BossMan actually found this information, it was a scientific programme on TV, on good old state-run NRK. He's been pestering me to watch it, because I will apparently change my mind when I watch it for myself. But I feel a little bit pissed off right now, because I don't think a boss should have this much say over my home-life even if, as he says, he just "borrows" me, and is not really my boss, and we're friends and yadda yadda. I'm looking for another job, just by the way. I am glad that you start eating again! And no-one, and certainly not your boss, should have the right to pressure you to go on when you do not feel good with it. Especially if he considers himself your friend. Enjoy eating! @sandra: I really find your medical explanations very interesting May I ask something in Addition to this? In Germany, a lot of people swear on something similar, "Heil-Fasten", which means going a certain time (usually also around 14 days) without food and drinking only vegetable juice or tea or whey (there are uncountable variations) to detox. Is sounds similar, but less extreme, than what Wintermoon's boss does. It is recommended to do it only after consulting a doctor about it and to start and end it slowly, with a time of (mental) preparation. I have never seen ist attraction. Where would you place that? Is there actually some sense in it or is it as dangerous as the water thing? I have been wondering if the Wintermoon's water diet might have the same origin.
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Post by WinterMoon on May 14, 2014 10:01:24 GMT
Thank you, Sandra and Dolphin. He called me up today to tell me how great he feels, how his life has improved drastically, and the compliments he gets from people. When I told him I was getting afraid of eating again, he said "no pressure" but went on to tell me how good this was for me anyway. I replied that I was indeed feeling pressure, since the message I'm getting from his is that he's found the "only right way of life", and that he's awoken my inner semi-anorexic 17-year-old. In my teens I flirted with starving myself, like so many other dumb teenagers, and that girl is still living in a remote corner of my brain. Of course I'm going to think that not eating is going to solve everything. It's not a new idea to me. Buried perhaps, but not forgotten. And now he's basically telling me that it will. He more or less made fun of me, saying that it wasn't a problem for adults, only for growing kids. And anyway, having anorexia was far better than the diseases you get from eating too much, because humans in a modern society barely need food. I got upset and called my cousin, who told me to stop listning to this "crazy guy", and preferrably get completely away from him before he brainwashes me. Talk to Personnel or his boss if he doesn't back off. That's the problem, he IS the boss of everyone. It's a really small company. But since I'm officially unemployed at the moment, and he borrows me from the employment office since he can't afford to hire someone, I talked to my supervisor. She said I should just start looking for some other place immediately. Here is the TV-programme he watched. Most of it, from what I've seen, seems to be in German and Russian, which I know a few of our members understand.
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Post by WinterMoon on May 14, 2014 13:24:42 GMT
Sooo long story short: I'm eating a pear, ha ha ha! In an act of willful defiance, I went for a walk in the sunshine to the nearest grocer's. I'll probably get some amount of grief for it, but whatever. It was totally worth it. Ironically, I feel great right now. But it may have been the fresh air, excercise and the vitamin drink I had that's responsible for that.
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